Do you ever feel you’re not qualified to apply for your dream job—or any job? You’re not alone. In this episode, Brandon, Jerry, and McKinley discuss overcoming imposter syndrome relating to the job application process, understanding job qualifications, and developing a growth mindset. Think of it like a therapy session for your career, but completely free. Grab a coffee, juice, or tea, and tune in until the end to hear a Career Center dad joke!
00;00;09;13 - 00;00;33;12
McKinley Hatch
Welcome back, listeners, to Career Cafe. Today, we're going to talk about uncovering your hidden potential. Applying for jobs you don't feel qualified for. Joining us today, we have Jerry Ross and Brandon Street and myself, McKinley Hatch, as your moderator. We're experts in professional development topics as such. So let's dive in. Talking about overcoming self-doubt and the imposter syndrome.
00;00;33;12 - 00;00;41;27
McKinley Hatch
I'm pretty sure everyone has felt this one way or another. So why don't we dive into this and and talk more about that?
00;00;41;29 - 00;00;59;03
Brandon Street
Yeah, I'm sure I feel like. Anyway, most people have felt that maybe, you know, there's some out there who don't have this at all, I imagine. But but for the most part, I think some people or a lot of people feel this kind of imposter syndrome when applying for jobs. That'll be a little bit of a leap from where they've been.
00;00;59;03 - 00;01;20;07
Brandon Street
Right. And so, you know, when I applied for the job I have ten years ago as a director of the career center, I had been coming off nine years of my first career. Right. And had about a year's worth of leadership. And and I knew was going to be a little bit of a lead for me. And I experienced some of this, you know, this kind of self-doubt or imposter syndrome.
00;01;20;07 - 00;01;27;23
Brandon Street
But so this can be a natural thing that I think happens to a lot of people. But the question is, how do we overcome that? Right.
00;01;27;26 - 00;01;47;12
Jerry Ross
And I think all of us have had those experiences. I remember in my managerial roles, I once went from 30 employees to 300 employees in one day, and I got sent to a I called it corporate office boot camp, where I spent a week wandering around two different offices and getting another binder of information of what I had to do.
00;01;47;15 - 00;02;03;11
Jerry Ross
And the last day I'm sitting in a VP's office and he's like, Well, how do you feel? Are you ready to go? And I said, Honestly, I just feel like I need a week of getting myself together. This is just a lot and I'm overwhelmed and I'm unsure where to start. And he said, Jerry, forget all this crap.
00;02;03;17 - 00;02;20;20
Jerry Ross
Go find people that love working here. And it was just very like a refreshing moment for what I needed. I was very overwhelmed in everything and I was struggling with how am I going to scale up what I was doing? And it just brought me back to the passion of love to do what you do and you'll probably be successful.
00;02;20;22 - 00;02;32;12
Jerry Ross
And inside of that, I feel like it's really good for us to challenge ourselves and get a little bit outside of our comfort zone reasonably and apply for some of those things that are some shoot for the stars mentality of job applications.
00;02;32;15 - 00;02;50;19
Brandon Street
And I think it's important, you know, as we talk about this overcoming self-doubt, you need to believe in yourself. I mean, I don't know why we spend so much time doubting our ability or potential for growth. Right. Everybody. You know, I started looking at this as I got beyond applying for this job. And obviously, you know, I got the job ten years ago.
00;02;50;19 - 00;03;09;11
Brandon Street
I, I started thinking, why does I mean, this person works in that? Why can't I write like it's all of us? I feel like for whatever reason, feel like I think we shortchange ourselves in a lot of ways. And if we would just believe in who we are, our capability and our ability to grow, I think we could we could really overcome that.
00;03;09;13 - 00;03;30;22
McKinley Hatch
Something that I, I think is been important for me to learn, like with imposter syndrome and having self-doubt, not believing in yourself is I feel like I compare myself to other people, like everybody else does, right? Like, like you had just said, if someone's I can do it, I can do it right. I'm almost the opposite, right?
00;03;30;22 - 00;03;54;04
McKinley Hatch
Like, if they're doing it like, there's no way I can do that. I'm like, man, like, I am not qualified for this or whatever. But something that has helped me is comparing myself to myself. Looking back, five years ago me did not know this, this, this, this, this and look how far I have come and look how like in those five years, like just think about the next five years, how much I'm going to learn, you know.
00;03;54;04 - 00;03;58;28
McKinley Hatch
And so I think comparing should go out the window unless it's to yourself.
00;03;58;28 - 00;04;26;22
Brandon Street
I love that I spent, you know, my master's degree studying sports psychology. And one of the things I teach athletes is, is not to compare yourself to others. I mean, if you're if you're spending your time trying to compare yourself to others to extrinsic right motivation, that's the motivation that can fail as very quickly. But when we learn to to set our own goals, understand our own growth and potential, compare ourselves to our self, are more likely to have long lasting motivation in whatever we do and believe in ourselves more right.
00;04;26;24 - 00;04;42;24
Jerry Ross
And I think people are they're going to struggle to find you at a higher place than you find yourself. So I just like to use that personally as like a no one's going to believe in me more than I'm going to believe in myself and have that personal acceptance of myself that I think helps me grow.
00;04;42;26 - 00;05;04;05
McKinley Hatch
Yeah. So we talked about imposter syndrome, self doubt, all of that, not believing in yourself, but also shooting for the stars, applying for jobs that you maybe don't feel qualified for. How are we going to do that? We talk about transferable skills and jobs. Maybe jobs don't relate. Maybe some of our listeners are considering a different career path out there.
00;05;04;07 - 00;05;16;14
McKinley Hatch
They have been working for 15 years, you know, some of our alumni, but they want to try something else. Where do those transferable skills come into play in these jobs that you don't feel qualified for?
00;05;16;17 - 00;05;41;13
Brandon Street
I think that's a really good question, but it starts with understanding what those skills are and how they can transfer over. Well, we talk about, you know, comparing ourselves again, sometimes we shortchange ourselves in the skills that we're learning on whatever job we're in, you know, whether it be critical thinking skills, communication skills, whatever it might be. A lot of times I've found that individuals just tend to shortchange themselves and what they what they learn.
00;05;41;16 - 00;06;02;14
Brandon Street
And so I think it's important to go through a few exercises to first identify your skills. Usually I suggest individuals to to to list all the skills that they feel like they learn from, you know, their last job, the job before that, Right. So sit down to write all the skills that you learned. And then, if possible, ask somebody you worked with, write or are working with to help you identify other skills.
00;06;02;16 - 00;06;19;28
Brandon Street
Look at the job ad for your job or a similar job to yours. Right? See what what skills it says you should have for that job and then even go to you know, there's a site like job hero that you can go to and look up your type of job. It has bullet points list of things that you should learn or own it online.
00;06;19;28 - 00;06;43;19
Brandon Street
Those are both great resource to find out what skills should you learn or should you have learned in that job. And those are all great ways, I think, to uncover hidden transferable skills You don't even know you have or forgot that you may have used, Right? But I think all of us learn skills that can be transferred to another industry, another career, that we just again, shortchange ourself a little bit by not understanding.
00;06;43;22 - 00;06;47;14
Brandon Street
Yeah, I did learn that skill and I could be effective in that job area, right?
00;06;47;17 - 00;07;05;01
Jerry Ross
Yeah. And I think people struggle, especially while they're going through college and some of those typical college jobs. Well, I was just a server. Well, hang on a second. Yeah. You evaluated someone in 90 seconds and you found out how you could help them have the perfect night. And some of them walk in and say, this is what I want.
00;07;05;01 - 00;07;22;28
Jerry Ross
And some of them walk in and say, What's good? And then you get to help them walk through the process and take that problem solving into other places that you go quickly. I can evaluate someone and help them decide what they need to have a fantastic experience while they're here and then provide an experience for them. That's been fantastic.
00;07;23;01 - 00;07;34;21
Jerry Ross
How can we take that skill into other roles and how can you translate it? There's ways that you can translate everything that you do. How can we translate it into the next job that you want to occupy?
00;07;34;24 - 00;07;53;04
McKinley Hatch
Yeah, I love that. You mentioned the just like I feel like that is so common with students, right? Like, I'm just working at McDonald's or just a Walmart or whatever. And I'm like, not just you're going to use all of these skills later, you know, and some that you don't even realize or recognize that you're building. You know.
00;07;53;07 - 00;08;10;07
Brandon Street
I've talked to students about the exact job at McDonald's, right? Yeah. Of sitting down with them. They're like their resume says cooked fries and hamburgers. And I'm like, okay, well, what else did you do? I just cooked fries and hamburgers. That's not all you did, right? Like, did you interact with with customers? Yeah, I did. Did you interact with angry customers?
00;08;10;07 - 00;08;24;22
Brandon Street
Yeah, I did. Did you have to solve any problems? Yeah, I did. Did you have to clean things where you needed attention to detail? Yeah. So we went through a list of things. All of a sudden now they have five bullet points. Six bullet points because we just went through an exercise of identifying. wow. I did a lot more there than I thought I did.
00;08;24;22 - 00;08;25;15
Brandon Street
Right.
00;08;25;17 - 00;08;41;07
Jerry Ross
So and if you're not applying for a job that cooks hamburgers, does it need to be on your resume? Can you highlight those other things? Unless you're applying for a job that's doing that over again, really highlight what you want to translate to the next one by using your previous experiences.
00;08;41;09 - 00;09;07;22
McKinley Hatch
Yeah, exactly. Love that. Thanks for answering those questions. I have they’re tricky ones, so thank you. Let's talk about growth mindset and how I mean, we talk about the imposter syndrome, all these things applying for jobs you don't feel qualified for. But we also know that growth mindset exists and maybe one of you will dive into what growth site growth mindset means so we can all be on the same page here.
00;09;07;22 - 00;09;14;16
McKinley Hatch
But how does that play a part in the job? You know, especially when we're talking about building confidence and all of this?
00;09;14;18 - 00;09;35;15
Brandon Street
Yeah, I think a growth mindset really. It comes down to how we think of ourselves and how we're willing to think of ourselves, right? And if we have a growth mindset, we are somebody who is not only willing to learn new things, but wants to learn new things, wants to stretch themselves. They don't think they're limited by what they know now or the experiences they have now.
00;09;35;15 - 00;09;56;22
Brandon Street
Right? And so I think growth mindset allows us the ability to apply for jobs that typically are a stretch because I want to learn new things, right? I want to grow as a professional. I want to do these things rather than I only know these things right. And that's that's probably too much for me or I don't I don't think I'm capable of that.
00;09;56;28 - 00;10;08;12
Brandon Street
No. A growth mindset allows us to understand everything we learn and do is helping us grow into a more evolved version of ourselves as we will, right? In a better version of ourselves.
00;10;08;14 - 00;10;36;02
Jerry Ross
Yeah, and I think our units use this through, I call it positive discontent. Like I'm a genuinely happy person, but I use I'm not happy with previous results over again to drive me towards things. I recall one time I went out and purchased a large whiteboard for my office and I put on that whiteboard that I wanted to be promoted into my next position and the date I wanted to be promoted there and it was my boss's position.
00;10;36;02 - 00;10;55;14
Jerry Ross
And he came in and said, Jerry am I leaving or retiring or What's going on? Well, this isn't about you. This is about I need to get to that date and say, I'm ready for the next. I'm going to do every single thing I can do to make sure that I am preparing myself for a growth future, whether that's here or in a different location or different things.
00;10;55;16 - 00;11;08;21
Jerry Ross
I've always been someone that just pushed for more and getting myself just slightly uncomfortable professionally so that I can grow through that and use that energy to push me past things that I thought I couldn't do previously.
00;11;08;23 - 00;11;26;27
Brandon Street
I love that because a part of a growth mindset is, you know, embracing challenges, seeking feedback, persisting when you have setbacks. I think those are all part of a growth mindset and but we've got to be willing to accept those, I think. But also accept learning new things, like you said, taking on things we haven't done and being willing to do that.
00;11;27;00 - 00;11;47;04
Brandon Street
To me, the biggest inhibitor to growth or this growth mindset or becoming a better version of ourselves is fear, right? Fear is the word I always use that it's like the barrier of us becoming better when we allow fear to be our in our inhibitor. Right. And and not recognizing that fear is what's doing that, then we're going to stay where we are.
00;11;47;05 - 00;12;12;12
Brandon Street
We're not going to grow. We won't take we won't take the leap for these bigger and better opportunities because we're allowing fear to overcome us. So but if we recognize that is what it is and we're willing to to do what we need to, to overcome that by taking on new challenges, even though we are afraid by, you know, accepting feedback, even though it might be scary to hear from our employer what we could do better, those types of things.
00;12;12;12 - 00;12;17;10
Brandon Street
And then we're allowing ourselves to grow, right, naturally through this this growth mindset.
00;12;17;12 - 00;12;41;25
McKinley Hatch
Yeah, I love what we've talked about so far with all of this. Now that we've talked about kind of the the back side of this building up for applying for these jobs. Right. Like getting the courage to do this and how to go about that. Tell me how we would go about navigating the application process, you know, tailoring our current skills to what they're looking for employers.
00;12;41;25 - 00;12;43;17
McKinley Hatch
Let's let's talk about that.
00;12;43;19 - 00;13;06;09
Jerry Ross
You know, I think the first thing I want to talk about is tailoring your resume and making sure that your resume is a true fit. And we can talk first about resumes. But I also want to talk about reading the resume in the mindset of a recruiter. So a lot of times the person that looks at your resume and decides whether you're going to go forward to the next position isn't going to be someone that's directly involved with your job process.
00;13;06;09 - 00;13;25;29
Jerry Ross
It's going to be someone that separate and they have people to answer to. So think in the mindset of a recruiter reading your resume. Do you fit the basic floor of what this position is? The basic skills and qualifications for what this would be? And then can you take what you've done and translate that into the rest of them?
00;13;26;01 - 00;13;48;24
Jerry Ross
And talking about cover letters, when we're talking about skills and qualifications on those job ads, say there's eight of them. Can your cover letter help you go eight for eight? Can you describe how well you fit those skills and qualification that they're looking for? And then I feel like a lot of times we have those other sections where you can submit things in the other section and we're a little lost on what do we do there.
00;13;48;27 - 00;14;10;23
Jerry Ross
And I like to talk about letters of recommendation. Most of us have had some sort of positive experience previously, and that's an opportunity for you to submit something that wasn't directly asked for. It was just an other or an experience that we've done. Can we get someone to write something down about an experience that we've had to help showcase what you've done and how you can really, truly blow them away as an applicant?
00;14;10;26 - 00;14;14;23
Jerry Ross
Brandon Have you seen any other strategies for tailoring your resume you think would fit here?
00;14;14;23 - 00;14;41;00
Brandon Street
Well, it starts before tailoring your resume and my opinion and that is you have got to know as much as you can about that job, about that company, and about who you'll work with. It's really, really important that you do your research before you even tailor your resume, right? If we're not doing what we can to learn as much about those those things I just talked about, then we it's going to be difficult for us to tailor resume and to show how we're a good fit.
00;14;41;02 - 00;15;01;12
Brandon Street
I always like to kind of think of it as an employer on the other side of the Grand Canyon right from me. And there's the large chasm in between of of the unknown. And my job is to learn as much as I can to build a bridge to them. And so through this process of making a resume and I'm trying to build a bridge to show how I'm a good fit for them, right?
00;15;01;15 - 00;15;26;27
Brandon Street
But at the beginning they know nothing. And so if I can learn, you know, the values of a company, their mission, what this job entails and how it fits within that mission, who my teammates would be, including my supervisor, who I'd work with, who I'd collaborate with. It's a lot easier for me to start then identifying again how my skills fit, what they're looking for, how I fit the culture of this company, how I can help that employer.
00;15;27;00 - 00;15;43;22
Brandon Street
And those are the keys to really getting a job. If I if I can then take that information, I can create and adapt my resume and tailor to that job more likely to get an interview and then I can sit down and justify to you why I'm your next candidate or why I'm your next employee. Right?
00;15;43;24 - 00;15;57;28
McKinley Hatch
Yeah. So I'm going to put I'm going to put you guys on the spot here and ask you more in an interview. Okay. I am interviewing you guys. Yeah. Chuck here.
00;15;58;01 - 00;15;59;25
Brandon Street
We're taking a left turn here on the left.
00;15;59;25 - 00;16;31;03
McKinley Hatch
Listeners just, you know, they're my supervisors, but I am interviewing you guys, so in an interview, how like, I'm. I'm curious to offer tips for our listeners how to effectively communicate during an interview when you don't know, right? Like we talk about growth mindset and we talk about this application process and all of this and then getting getting to the interview stage, how do you accept, you know, that you don't know something?
00;16;31;03 - 00;16;36;10
McKinley Hatch
I ask you a question. You've never done that before. What do you say?
00;16;36;12 - 00;17;10;08
Brandon Street
Yeah, that's a great question. And so again, hopefully you if you through that research, you identify what you would be doing and you would be familiar with perhaps where your shortfalls are, right? Where you lack some experience to do that. But with that you can backfill hopefully some other experience you do have. If that's not the case, then you need to be open, honest with employers saying, listen, you know, I haven't done this specifically, but let me show you a time where I've learned something new and I'm willing to do that right where I'm willing to work hard to not only learn this, but then again, going back to highlighting the things of why you're
00;17;10;08 - 00;17;23;18
Brandon Street
a great candidate. So not leaving it at that by saying, you know, I think based on these other skills that I have, this this experience that I have and my willingness to learn and grow, I can be a very effective candidate in this position.
00;17;23;20 - 00;17;45;03
Jerry Ross
I love to be honest and I also like to talk about running towards the fire. Right. And maybe applying for a job that you don't know every single thing that they want you to know so that you get to learn something too, you know? And if you apply to a job and you've got just a great comprehension of all ten skills and qualifications that they're looking for, are you going to grow?
00;17;45;05 - 00;18;11;08
Jerry Ross
You know, so maybe you could say, I'm really happy you guys had something on this job description that I didn't have experience with because I was really excited about learning that. And previously, when I had the opportunity to take something new on, I was so excited because I love to grow too. And it's not just this like a year from now, I want this job to have these things in it different ways that I can kind of help and push myself professionally to get involved in things that I don't have experience with currently.
00;18;11;10 - 00;18;18;25
McKinley Hatch
Yeah, we've talked about shooting for the stars right? Knowing that and whatever fire analogy.
00;18;18;28 - 00;18;19;16
Jerry Ross
Run towards the fire.
00;18;19;16 - 00;18;50;13
McKinley Hatch
Run towards the fire. I was like, whatever fire analogy you just said. We've talked about that, right, with growth mindset, all of these things. But what about scenarios where you really don't have the skills there? Let's talk about the opposite end of the spectrum here. There are sometimes there you just don't qualify for a job right? And and we see that especially when we are talking about salary, we see high salaries, you see on LinkedIn, you know, jobs and stuff.
00;18;50;21 - 00;19;08;08
McKinley Hatch
The ones that put high salaries on there say like millions of applicants, it feels like like people are jumping towards those opportunities. But let's talk about what that looks like when you really don't qualify. How how did it justify your qualifications? You know.
00;19;08;10 - 00;19;27;23
Brandon Street
Yeah, I think that's a very good question. I think there's there's a part of this that needs to be reality, too, right? I had a student not long ago who who's graduated from SUU had been working in, you know, their field for about a year or two and then contacted me and said, Hey, I want to apply for a vice president job and here's the job.
00;19;27;23 - 00;19;46;25
Brandon Street
Right? And I, you know, as I talked with them and I, you know, I didn't right away shoot down the fact that they can apply for it. But I just ask them, how do you feel like you meet these qualifications, Right? Like how? Because I couldn't see it naturally myself. And so I asked, how do you feel like you meet these qualifications?
00;19;46;28 - 00;20;09;09
Brandon Street
As we went through that, that student I kind of identified on their own, if you will, that I maybe this is a stretch, right? And I said I might be it might be a little bit of a stretch at this time and and perhaps told to get there. Here's a couple natural steps you could take that's still stretching you, But there seems to be a couple steps between where you are and vice president.
00;20;09;09 - 00;20;26;22
Brandon Street
Maybe it's a you know, a team lead. Maybe it's a director. But there's a few natural steps maybe to take to get that experience, to get there one day. So we got we do have to be realistic that, you know, when we're applying, there are some jobs that you look at and go, I don't apply. I'm just going to because I get people that say, I'm just going to apply and see what happens.
00;20;26;24 - 00;20;42;20
Brandon Street
Well, I probably can tell you what's going to happen right now. You know, you're you're probably not going to get an interview for this particular job. Right. But and you can I'm not discouraged. People you want. I could do that. That's fine. But just understand, you know what I mean? That they're probably not not going to happen, but.
00;20;42;26 - 00;20;59;06
McKinley Hatch
Just expect reality to come back to and maybe it is lucky and you do or maybe you do qualify and maybe, you know, it works out. But to not feel defeated, you hear back or don't hear back.
00;20;59;09 - 00;21;12;09
Brandon Street
Yeah, and that's my point. I hope I'm not discouraging for like we talk about Shoot for the Stars. We want you to take leaps in your career and to do that strategically. But but there I think there are times we all know that there's certain positions that we're just not ready for yet. You're right.
00;21;12;14 - 00;21;32;12
Jerry Ross
You don't want to waste the recruiter's time and think the next time you have a position that you might truly qualify for. Well, this person was just the person that was applying to everything to see what stuck, you know? So it's such a fine line between making sure that you're reasonable for the recruiter's time and applying for correct positions while also maintaining that shoot for the stars.
00;21;32;14 - 00;21;36;27
Jerry Ross
And I think it's a lot of self-reflection on people to figure out which one of those two places they fit.
00;21;37;02 - 00;21;37;20
Brandon Street
Yeah.
00;21;37;23 - 00;22;03;08
McKinley Hatch
Yeah. Well, thank you listeners for tuning in today to to Career Cafe, where we talked about everything revolving around uncovering your hidden potential and and applying for these jobs that you might not feel qualified for. So to end our podcast, we just want to encourage you to subscribe and share this and continue listening. Tune in next week on how to get your resume seen.
00;22;03;09 - 00;22;24;20
McKinley Hatch
There's a lot of resumes and a lot of people on hiring committees, reviewing hundreds of resumes. So let's figure out and teach you how to get your resume seen. So we're going to sign off with a a dad joke, of course, and I'm going to share this time. But guys, I just lost my job at the orange juice factory.
00;22;24;23 - 00;22;25;10
Brandon Street
Thats a travesty.
00;22;25;10 - 00;22;26;16
Jerry Ross
So sorry.
00;22;26;18 - 00;22;30;22
McKinley Hatch
I just couldn't concentrate, you know?
00;22;30;24 - 00;22;33;03
Jerry Ross
I'll.
00;22;33;05 - 00;22;34;14
McKinley Hatch
See you next week, listeners.